User talk:Clockpuncher
Otherarrow (talk) 07:38, February 7, 2016 (UTC) Three Houses Hey man, thank you so much for your help! With Three Houses coming up soon, there is a lot of information we will be adding as a result. However, I have one request from you and that other anonymous user. Please do NOT add any major spoilers you come across, such as the Flame Emperor thing I happened to come across. Since the game is not even out and these reveals are coming from leakers, technically this shouldn't be public knowledge. Any edit you have done so far can stay as is, but until Friday 7/26 12:00 AM PST, please do not add anything to the pages for now that is story important. Stats are okay, personality quirks, in-game stuff like supports are good.—Nauibotics (talk) 03:49, July 23, 2019 (UTC) :You've got it. But does that include any more of the world-building lore, like what is mentioned in the links Are You Serious posted on the Three Houses talk page (I've been mainly using those for the past day and trying in vain avoid further plot spoilers myself)? Just want to be sure where the line is. I don't see that kind of background stuff as story important, but obviously that could be a matter of opinion. Clockpuncher (talk) 04:23, July 23, 2019 (UTC) ::World Building should be fine. Basically any information on level with Masked Marth being Lucina or Alm being Rudolf’s son sort of revelations. Epilogue stuff like the Dimitri title or big revelations like Edelgarde being the Flame Emperor should be witheld until at least Friday−Nauibotics (talk) 04:39, July 23, 2019 (UTC) :::Understood, thanks. Clockpuncher (talk) 04:44, July 23, 2019 (UTC) :Hey man, I'm here to let you know that I have pushed the time to start adding Three Houses spoiler content to tomorrow, 7/25 at 8 AM PST since the game will be out in Japan at that time. You are free to add anything you have starting at that time. As for certain pages, namely the Flame Emperor, I am debating if we should leave it an active page for a short period of time, rather than merge it with Edelgard yet since the sudden merging would become an unavoidable spoiler. "Monica" on the other hand can easily be merged though.—Nauibotics (talk) 19:13, July 24, 2019 (UTC) ::What about the various other plot-important-characters-that-are-actually-other-plot-important-characters? I know we'll have to merge them eventually, but a lot of them are pretty significant reveals and I feel we should wait at least a few days after the games release. There's also the matter of which name they should be put under... Are You Serious (talk) 21:12, July 24, 2019 (UTC) :::That's probably for the best to leave unmerged for a few days, if not maybe a week? month? As for which one takes prescience, probably their most notable name or identity like Kronya should be the main page instead of Monica or Edelgarde rather than Flame Emperor. As for plot important characters, I guess do it like fates, highlight main antagonists, minor antagonists, npcs by their countries, etc.—Nauibotics (talk) 21:26, July 24, 2019 (UTC) ::::If you want my two cents, I think holding off the merges for a week at minimum would be ideal. As it is, you might have to deal with some well-intentioned contributors coming along and merging the pages before then without regard for how they're spoiling the plot for others. Second, roger on the time change. There's honestly not much more plot stuff I want to add at this point, I'm aware of the broad strokes of the different routes but have managed to avoid the specifics so far. The last big item on my list is the background info on the different noble houses. Speaking of which, I would like to know if we want articles for each noble family. I couldn't find a precedent for family articles on this wiki and I didn't want to push the envelope too far (I already made the Fódlan timeline page even though there's no precedent for timelines either, but I felt the amount of info justified it - with the noble houses, I'd be making a lot of smaller pages). Clockpuncher (talk) 01:04, July 25, 2019 (UTC) :::::Sounds about right. Just remember to add the spoiler template and that should be all that is required, no other restrictions on what you add, though verification may be requested if needed. :::::We'll put a temporary hold on any suggestions or attempts to merge pages. We may also need to protect the pages of the three Leaders and Byleth since the traffic on those three in particular are likely to ramp up starting tomorrow, though I'd probably leave it to only registered users can edit those pages just so we can better monitor who is editing. :::::As for separate pages for the Noble Houses...that is open to a LOT of interpretation. If it is majorly integral to the plot, then yes, feel free to talk about them, especially if there is extensive history. If it's a minor detail that can be summed up in three paragraphs or less, you can just mention it on the Kingdom Page or the relevant character's page if there is a more personal connection to the stories. —Nauibotics (talk) 01:24, July 25, 2019 (UTC) Sound ideas all. And I should have thought about using the country pages for the noble info earlier, that could work out nicely. Clockpuncher (talk) 03:30, July 25, 2019 (UTC) :I think the history of the various Noble Houses should be used on the corresponding location pages since the history of the noble house is also the history of the region they have dominion over, i.e., the History of House Galatea is the history of the Galatea region Are You Serious (talk) 11:06, July 25, 2019 (UTC) ::That's what I originally thought of, but I want more info on most of the locations and how they are used in gameplay, which likely differs from how they are identified on the world map (for example, the map has "Remire" on it, but we also know that a mission takes place in "Remire Village"; how many other locations have longer full names?). I'll just give it some more time. I can start with a handful of locations I have a firm grasp of and hold off on the others until I get a clearer picture. Clockpuncher (talk) 20:54, July 25, 2019 (UTC) :::You can do specific towns/regions of a maps and notable features within it. For example, Ylisse has a direct page for the country as a whole and we also show Ylisstol, the capital because of plot importance. Though some are exceptions like Castle Shirasagi which has three battle locations within the castle and we only have one page for it. use your own discretion when making pages. If we feel that it can be merged into one page, we will do it then. I am giving you permission to make pages as you see fit for now until I can get my hands on my own copy today or tomorrow and better help. :::In other matters, I have already opened the ability to begin putting "reasonable" story spoilers given that the game is now officially out in the East and many people have now begun to legally play/stream the game. Any spoiler added is fair game, though for at least a few weeks, the Flame Emperor and Death Knight will remain separate pages. The Slither in the Dark members who are in disguise have already had their pages merged and redirects have been established for the disguise names.—Nauibotics (talk) 21:10, July 25, 2019 (UTC) ::::Alrighty, I'll see what I can do. My own copy of the game (snagged a Seasons of Warfare edition) should arrive sometime tomorrow as well. Clockpuncher (talk) 21:18, July 25, 2019 (UTC) Edit warring Okay. First of all, because of the barrage of changes, I was unable to see the message you left on the user page. Second, the reason I'm reason I'm doing this changes is because Three houses is way too different from the other titles in the series in terms of lore. You say that there's very scant information about subjects such as geography and each country's military, and not enough in my opinion to justify separate sections within the articles for them, but as far as I'm aware, there is, at least for the military part. I know that other country articles like Grannvale use a simplified layout because they lack information, but if you look at the Begnion page, you'll see it's divided in this way because there is info enough, and the same could be applied here, but since the game is relatively new, there wasn't enough time to develop it. It should also be noted that your idea of individual pages for each noble family is very different from the noble house pages that I created. It comprises of all the noble families for each country in a single article, which covers the problem for less relevant families who don't show up in the plot, and they did not contain any new information because I was thinking of ways to sum up in three paragraphs or less for each family, hence why I labeled a stub. Please read this if you're really willing to discuss these changes. I don't like doing edit wars, unless I believe it benefits the articles themselves.-- 03:49, August 3, 2019 (UTC) :Thank you for posting. You should know, if you don't already, that I've notified an admin, User:Nauibotics, about our edit war and requested an outside opinion. But I am glad you've reached out so we can discuss our differences and hopefully arrive at some agreement. :First, I'm actually not 100% opposed to your layout changes. I'm just opposed to them at the present time, with the info we currently have. I don't believe there's enough info to justify the additional sections yet, and would prefer to wait until later, when we've all had more time to evaluate the sum total of 3H's information. I mean, it's early days yet. The game's only been out for a week. If there is eventually enough info to justify the additional sections (say a full paragraph and/or five lines at minimum, something more substantive than "It is cold in Faerghus" or "It is mountainous in Leicester"), then I'd be fine with them. But I don't want to put the cart before the horse and create sections right now that may never be expanded beyond one or two brief sentences. :Second, although your three noble house pages are indeed a different thing than individual pages for every house, my issue is that I don't see why the noble info can't be included on the three country pages anyway. If the problem is the table format I used to list the families is too restrictive, then I wouldn't disagree with doing away with the tables and making a bulleted list or even subsections for each noble family. The bottom line is I don't any benefit to making separate pages for the nobility because (1) each family only has a paragraph or two of info at most to work with, and most of that can be presented on the relevant location pages (Bergliez, Ordelia, and so on), and (2) the three country pages are a long way from being so overstuffed that they need chunks of content to be split out. Clockpuncher (talk) 04:41, August 3, 2019 (UTC) All right, then. If this is about having info for those sections, here's what I have to say: Keep the Politics section for Adrestia and Leicester, since we do know there's plenty for those two, keep the culture bit for Faerghus since it is tied in to the story, and let all countries have a military section, since we do have batallions per each region. Also, my problem isn't with the table format, its about having a table on this page at all. The characters from said noble families are listed in this page and the crest for each family is listed on another. And then there's also the matter of these pages being about the countries, not the families themselves. Considering that along with the fact that several families do have a bit of history on their own, they deserve to be relegated to their own page.-- 05:01, August 3, 2019 (UTC) :I can agree to those proposed sections, provided you allow them to be added as subsections under "Profile" instead of being left on their own. :I think I need clarification on your opposition to the table. The crest part as well, since the table does say which crest(s) each house carries; if you want to include the crests' effects and images, surely those can be added. As for whether the nobles are relevant info on the country pages, I'd argue they are definitely relevant. The noble houses are the movers and shakers of Fódlan, and it's essential to identify them and explain their roles and importance within the country they belong to, either in brief (as I attempted with the tables, a "vital stats" approach) or in detail if needed. As I said, if the table is too inflexible a format to do all of this, I'm willing to retool it or replace it with subsections covering each house in more detail, but in my opinion it should all stay on the country pages and not be separated unless we have sufficient info for individual noble house pages by the admins' standards. :I've got to head out for now, but I'll try and followup to your response within the next day. Clockpuncher (talk) 06:14, August 3, 2019 (UTC) All right, time for me to explain the table ordeal. First, this isn't about what it saying which family has said crest and whatnot, this is about such a table being more important on a page of its own. Because the noble houses are relevant to the countries they belong to, their roles and importance within said country should be explained, but more along the lines of sections such as politics. However, that isn't so say the table isn't useful, but considering each of them has a history of their own (a first for FE, frankly), it would be far more useful on a separate page, since we can use it to cover the houses which are absent from the main game, as well as having info on each of them instead of multiple pages, which I believe would be sufficient lenghty even if we don't include the royal families into the mix. That said, I do believe that should be brought up to the admins so that they can act as mediators to this whole debacle. So please, notify them of this issue if my answer doesn't satisfy you.-- 03:07, August 5, 2019 (UTC) :I understand now, that's a reasonable stance. However, I would still disagree with that approach - I think the details about each noble house can be adequately explained between both the country pages and any relevant location/territory pages, including any details for the absent/backstory-only houses. So you're right, we do need an admin to end the impasse. :As I previously mentioned, I notified User:Nauibotics of our dispute on his talk page, and I further informed him that we had begun talking, but he appears to be taking a break currently (I'm sure it's brief, I've seen him online all the time until now). If he doesn't chime in within the next 24 hours, I'll give him another poke. You can rest assured that in the event that he does rule in your favor and give the green light for the three noble house pages, I'll accept his judgment. Clockpuncher (talk) 03:28, August 5, 2019 (UTC) ::Alright, now you've officially been given the go-ahead. ::For the record, though, there was really no call for you to make and act on an assumption about what Nauibotics would say, especially after only a couple days of waiting. I'm not sure if you're new to wikis or just unfamiliar with the etiquette, but we both agreed to abide by an admin's decision, so the issue was on indefinite hold until we received that or we both accepted changes to the terms of our agreement. I hope you take better care in any future wiki disputes you may encounter. Clockpuncher (talk) 20:52, August 8, 2019 (UTC) No problemo.-- 21:03, August 8, 2019 (UTC)